New Schematics available

Here are 2 of my schematics for units I have built and ran. versions 2 and 4. they are drawn up with sketchup 2 + years ago but upgraded and cleaned up this last week. Much explanation included. feel free to download and use them, sketchup is required to maneuver in 3d and explode components for more detail.

HHO dry cell#2 https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u4be0bbb9-7e90-4253-830e-a9c33dbc1338

and

HHO dry cell #4   https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=ucb9cbada-c700-441f-937f-b96b8e4a0a6a

have fun, enjoy, and save much money.

HHOFuel Poll results to date

As of 12/04/08

32.8% (110 votes) have a working cell in a vehicle

6.5% (22) No

46.5% (156 votes) are building  a cell

2.9% (10 Vote) are waiting for a purchased one

8% (27 votes) are still deciding if they want one.

Ok! now those 110 people out there that have a HFE cell in a vehicle, how about some facts!!! DETAILS and data!!

335 Votes!!

SHARE SHARE SHARE Help everyone decide to stick it to the OIL Companies and OPEC!

Everyone needs to know how much it helps if we want to build or buy a unit!!

Help with electronics

Here’s a free software program for designing circuits and pcb boards. ExpressPCB. it has both circuit and board design capabilities, and looks to be reasonable pricing if you need the boards made.

Any schematic I post here is made with it and the .sch file can be zipped and posted for download if requested.

Here’s to open source and ways to maintain it for free!

Measuring plate area

I noticed some calculations seemed to be off when looking at my data spreadsheet, and realize that some numbers could be off due to a ‘margin of error’ in the equipment, so reran some of the tests to verify the results, and got the same numbers.

The results showed that when doubling the plates the amps and output were not quite doubled, tripled, etc as one would have thought. Then I spotted a possible flaw in plate surface calculation, then a second flaw and figured I pass them on, since the numbers now come out within 2% when doubling and tripling surface area.

First lets start with a 2 x 5 in plate, 10 sq in surface area. Sort of, I punched 2 – 1/4″ holes in each, pi*r*r = area of circle, so the two holes remove 0.3925″, leaving 9.6075 sq in., so remove any holes or slots that may have been cut or drilled into the plates.

Second there are 2 sides to the plate in contact with the water, sort of, take 2 plates, one +, one -, only one side of each is producing gas, the other 2 do nothing. So if you have 10 plates, effectively only both sides of 9 plates are in contact, so multiply number of plates-1, by 2, by area of plate, so 10 of these plates are 86.4675 sq in not 96.075 producing gas. A large difference when thinking there would be 100 sq in with 10 plates of 2×5.

This minor difference added at least 14% difference in numbers collected, the 2% error so far I think I can attribute to the surface of the hole on the edge (inside the holes) and possibly the edges of the plates when submerged.

Now when I’m producing 300ml with 5 plates @ 3 amps, and then double them to 9 plates and I get 600ml @ 6 amps, the numbers even work out. And before you say 5*2 is 10, not in this case, 5 plates have 4 working pairs, 9 plates have 8 working pairs, so yes 5*2=9 in this case.

Hope this helps when calculating a new HFE cell construction to get more accurate results.

Technorati Tags: calculations,hho,hfe,surface area,amps

Continuing fine tuning on HFE dry cell

Changed tubing to smaller liquid inlet and larger gas out let in an attempt to control direction of liquid flow, my check valve decided not to work, they wouldn’t open, I guess plastic air valves don’t like NAOH.

Anyway, the flow rate didn’t change stayed at 200ml/min, up’ d the Solution from 5tsp/L to 7 in 2 steps, noting the amp draw. At 6tsp/L it drew 7 a, and 7tsp drew 8 a start surge, and settled to 5.25a. some added output, but didn’t measure it.

I got to looking at the gas flow and saw that it was large bubbles, explains amp drop, trapped gas till bubble can free itself from unit. I lifted the tank, it was at a level where the liquid level was 6″ above the top of the dry cell, and about 18″  above the dry cell the flow turned to almost a milky flow, and amps went to 6.5. Set up a temp stand and checked output, it produced 200ml in 20sec, that’s 600ml/min at 6.5a.

Later today when I get back from work I’m going to bump the solution up 1 tsp/L till I get a steady 11a, unless I hit 1L/min first.

PWM parts and diagram

Here’s the Parts list: thanks to Nine_Dots

For the capacitor use any of these

1 – 1000uf 50v (Radio Shack – $2.59)
or
1 – 708uf to 850uf 125VAC to 165VAC
(take it off an old motor control if you have access)
or

(You can rape this from an old ATX power supply)
680uf 200v
1- For the PWM, use one of the 30a 12v-24v dual transistor DC motor controls you can find all over Ebay. Expect to spend between $30.00 to $40.00. This should be the most expensive part.

1 – >GBPC3506 35A 600V bridge recitfier
(You can buy these on Ebay as well for next to nothing)
or
1 – >GBPC3504 35A 50V bridge rectifier
(You can pick one of these up at Radio Shack for about 3 bucks I think. I’ve burned through so many, I really can’t remember anymore, but I know they’re not very expensive.)

and the diagram for assembly:

PWM wiring diagram

HFE Dry Cell

This is the HFE cell I’ve settled on for my cars, I’m in the process of building it at this time, but thought I’d share the plans.
Its a Dry Cell, meaning its not immersed in the catalyst, has a smaller size, and seems to have eliminated the edge voltage leaking typical with plate cells. It has a refill tank, so it should be easier to maintain and cool.

Dry cells are smaller than normal immersed cells

Click to open the .pdf, right click to save the pic

See these videos about dry cells

Dry Cell Data

Dry Cell Production

Typical HFE Cell wiring

Here’s a little help with the electrical wiring for a HFE Cell.
The Theme here is safety! Use appropriate sized wire, the packages will tell what amps it will carry, and you can look it up with a net search to be sure. Always go heavier if in doubt, a burned wiring harness, or even car fire is not fun.
Check and recheck your work, dont burn out parts needlessly, we’re here to save money not spend more of it.
You can split the HFE feed wire (positive) and run it to an amp guage if you want more details while its running.
The whole circuit is designed to only be on when the car is running, and has a switch to shut it down at any time.

HFE Typical Wiring

Click on pic to download pdf or right click to save as jpg

pictorial diagram of HFE wiring

Insulating electric connections

To insulate a plate or plates from a combination structural bolt and electric connection, the prefered way is probably Nylon bushings, but these never seem to the length or OD that I want to use, so I have resorted to using pvc tubing that just fits over the bolt and cut to the length I need, and a larger hole for the insulated plate.  This spaces the connected plates, but not the insulated plates, so then comes a washer made of the next size pvc.

Then I realized the vinyl tubing is cheaper and easier to work with, altho not as rigid, so often ends up with a combination of pvc and tubing.

The SS Nuts can be gotten in several thickness and help with spacing the connected plates, as well as SS washers in many thickness’ and diameters.

I also use the liquid tape and spray tape to insulate wires and bolts that aren’t SS so they dont corrode. I did have one brand, that disolved in the catalyst, wish I could name it, but I cant remember it.

Shrink tubing is very useful for insulating bolts and wires, and can be found in most electrical depts.

Use epoxy or silicon to seal bolt holes if rubber seals wont do the job. I have found that pvc an cpvc glue may seal the pipe for liquids, but rarely a good seal for air or HHO gas, try pressure checking the cell by blowing into it thru a fitting while sealing the others, the leaks will become apparent and can be sealed. Using an air hose is probably over kill unless you intend to pressurize the cell for use as a torch.

SS Steel Wool HFE

Here is a HHO cell that is cheap to build if your handy with a drill and tappingg tools. Uses ss scrubbing pads.

SS Steel Wool HFE, 2″ dia x 5 1/4″ h , simple, small, and efficient.
Operational Details: 13.5 V, 15 amps, 195 watts

SS Steel HFE

Click on pic to download pdf or right click to save as jpg